abandoned boats

[J.D.]

No worries new Randolph, everyone seems to leave stuff in the canyons these days....even the pros. I seem to remember seeing something like 3 boats on the South Merced this weekend and James got himself a new paddle...well almost new. People just don't like to be bothered with picking up after themselves. Pretty soon all the good runs will have their own little gear graveyards. At least it's easy for first timers to find the prefered camp spots....

[Anonymous]

i hear there's a brand new Nomad sitting on dry rocks in Generation Gap?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the consternation about stuff left behind on the South Merced. We found tarps at the first obvious campsite, above the Super Slide. Maybe it's okay to stash them, it's not like anyone else uses the river except boaters, but for the wilderness ethic - if people want to apply it here - perhaps one ought to leave things like that hidden out of sight, rather than in the middle of an obvious meadow. Also, I probably wouldn't care except there was some garbage left at this same site; I'm guessing by boaters since it was on river left.

[speicher]

So what's the prevailing view on that? You go for the gnar, you end up stuck in some canyon that's a bitch to get yourself out of let alone your boat/paddle/whatever. I personally think folks should make it back in to get their shit. Some runs its nearly impossible though but I think it really is part of your responsibility as a boater to get it done regardless of what it takes. I'm not suggesting risking your life but I know a dude who spent a couple days hiking out of the Middle Kings and then another 5-6 days getting his boat out later on. I'm sure it sucked but the graveyard scene sucks too. I definitely think he did the right thing.

[new Randolph]

It seems we've started a whole new topic here.

I think there are a few view points on this. Let's discuss the "gear stash" first of all. Leaving tarps and such at your favorite campsites is in my opinion, questionable backcountry ethics, although, it may be true that no one will ever see them except for other boaters. Still, not sure if I would feel good leaving tarps and such at a campsite for future visits. It still might take away from the wilderness experience for others though and that is something to consider.

What about a gear stash such as leaving a paddle somewhere for future visits? Is that a different story or more of the same?

As for leaving a boat to hike out, I don't think it's fair to judge all cases as the same on this one. It's easy to say "dude got in there, didn't like what he saw and bailed like a little bitch....." each situation is different. Regardless of the reason for hiking out, the question is still the backcountry ethics of leaving a boat. One has to consider someone hiking out of the Middle Kings or San Joaquin. If it's a two day hike out without a boat, and the person is already nearly exhausted from paddling anyway, I think that he/she needs to consider their own safety as the number one factor. Carrying the extra weight of their boat may indeed lead them to dehidration or further exhaustion. So, I think it's a judgement call on the part of the induvidual whether or not to take a their boat with them or not.

I WILL SAY THIS: I think that it is the boaters responsibliity to go back for their boat at some point rather than leave it there forever. I know of a few situations where boats have been left permanently that are understandable, but in most cases, I think the trip to get the boat out is feasable and should be done. Regardless, if you are on a wilderness trip and DO leave your boat to hike out, the responsible thing to do is to leave a note in your boat that says something along the lines of "Please do not call search and rescue, I'm okay...." That way, if someone finds your boat, they don't assume you're dead somewhere and get a bunch of people involved in a wilderness rescue that does not need to take place.

All and all, I do not think it's okay to critisize someone for hiking out of a gorge. I think that it is that person's judgment call and theirs alone. It's easy to say that "If you're hiking out, you shouldn't be there in the first place." but I think that if you're saying that, you're either a total ass-hole like that "Randolph" guy, or you've never really been on a wilderness trip yourself and don't know what you're talking about. I know some VERY good boaters, much better than myself who have had to hike out of canyons for whatever reason and if you try to tell them they shouldn't have been there, you're only making yourself look ignorant.

Sorry to get so preachy, just some food for thought. Speicher, as far as my boat, I've got two attempts down and am going back in on Friday. Damn "property owners," poison oak, and rattlesnakes....

Later.

[Anonymous]

just for this ill make a trip this weekend to the south merced and hike around with a stuff sack that includes a tent and small abg, a little food, and some water. ill personally take a look around for gear that people carelessly leave. who knows i might be able to get a whole new set up for the price of less then half a tank of gas.
i know its a hell of a hike into some of those places, trust me ive done it before, but i was considerate enough to take out EVERYTHING i brought in. this time ill also bring about 5 to 6 trash bags. good thing i have a good running 4 wheeler, ill take that back their to take out the garbage people like laying around. i guess my weekends packed...

[speicher]

Right on dude...definitely putting in the effort it sounds like. Too bad more folks don't follow your example.

As far as the hike out goes yeah its always a person's call and I guess in looking back that might have been a low blow. Intended as a joke and the whole "you shouldn't been there in the first place" is not my angle on it at all. By all accounts that gorge is serious...I haven't even scene it except looking down while skiing so...

Making no effort to get something out is a totally different situation. For example Sunday on South Silver we found a broken paddle sticking out of a pothole on the side by Offramp on shore. Now there are few places you can get that are easier to get a broken paddle out of than there. That's just plain inconsiderate and lazy...

[Anonymous]

every twelve year old boyscout knows that you packout more than you pack in. period. if it takes a day or two to get back to a boat thats one thing but with ropes and other equipment there is absolutely no reason to just leave stuff behind without intending to go back in any circumstance including for use next time.

-aaron (double-a-ron)

[Hartje]

J.D. what's your beef with leaving stuff in canyons? Didn't you recently benefit from finding a goodie bag?

Randolph you get burned so regularly on this site I'm surprised you're still afraid of Poison Oak.

I just fetched my boat from the hot-asphalt, wilderness canyon of Ron Smith's Buick & Chevrolet in Merced. I was worried about spending the night in a central valley parking lot adjacent to Hwy 99 so I hiked out. Hope I didn't break any wilderness ethics, though next time I drive through Merced I might just take a poo on their service counter.

Point is no matter where you are break downs suck!

[J.D.]

Touche there Hartje. Glad to hear it worked out. The concrete jungle can be a bitch!

Now to add my two cents. I'm not talking smack or saying anything about someones skills or abilities on the creek, anyone can have the shit go down. My point is only that you got it there which means you can get it out. Just like dragging your boat, If you can't carry it don't go. Others don't want to see the evidence of you being there, weather it be boats and paddles or little pieces of plastic. It's all litter.

Oh and just to clarify, I didn't start this thread. It seems some moderator took the liberties of using a previous thread for the sites own advancement. Hummmm....

[Hartje]

Hummmm...So we have a new environmental-cum-boating-quasi-web-discussion.

I'd say it's very on topic to this region as even the average canyons, combined with the heat and topography, could make even a day run turn into a death march. Back east a solid boat would stay put only until the next good rain and then it would be in the hands of another boat abuser, if the owner failed to get it by then. In Colorado boats don't get carried out because they've been shredded by mank and just blow away in the rocky mountain breezes ;-)

How many people out there would suffer the death march from any canyon they enter? It may not happen that trip but I would definitely go back somehow someway. I know I'm gonna eat these words someday when I leave my boat up in the shit fork of the hell ****.

[new Randolph]

Hey Shawn, you're not allowed to swear on this site. You know how serious people take the shit that you talk here!!

I think that all joking and zings aside, it's a good topic to talk about. I think that this is a very important issue in the kayaking/exploration world. Let's compare to climbing/mountaineering. Is it ethical that climbers leave O2 tanks and ropes and gear and all their shit on Everest? How about screwing bolts into rocks for top-roping. I think all and all, the boating community is pretty minimal-impact when you compare it to other venues of adventure/fun, but at the same time, we shouldn't use that as an excuse not to clean up after ourselves. This goes back to an UCC thread from last season too. I was just trying to add my 2 cents and I think others should post theirs too.

I'm not even going to tell you the story about when I hiked out of the Reno Park. I think I'll save myself the 2000 replys by pissed off reno locals. Man, those folks hate me.

By the way, the only two things I'm afraid of in this world are left handed people and poison oak. Damn Leftorium shoppers and thier left handed can openers.......

-Frank Grimes

[Anonymous]

Regardless, if you are on a wilderness trip and DO leave your boat to hike out, the responsible thing to do is to leave a note in your boat that says something along the lines of "Please do not call search and rescue, I'm okay...." That way, if someone finds your boat, they don't assume you're dead somewhere and get a bunch of people involved in a wilderness rescue that does not need to take place.

Real good point here... unless you're NOT ok. Better yet, put down a name, phone number, date and time, and which way you planned to hike out. You could be fine when you leave, and get in a bad way after 2 hrs of hiking. Now, there's no one coming 'cause you said you were fine.

Finally, when you DO reach civillization, make sure you call off any search someone might have started. Call your friends, and let them know you're out. I don't know if you can call 911 and tell them not to search for you or not, but I might try that too.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on hiking out....

[Anonymous]

In case you don't have pen/paper with you on an overnighter, you could instead pile cairns on/by your boat as a signal that you're okay.

[Anonymous]

Let's be sure to have a group hug afterwards.

[Anonymous]

so heres the update. well after riding my quad for what seemed like endless hours of fun up and down the canyon rim, i can sort of see where some of you guys are coming from. however, i was able to climb down (that climb puckered my butt hole) and find my self a Sonic 8.1 boat, 3 paddles, and a dry bag that included : 4 carabinners, 2 full water bottles, one pair of gloves, and (oh dear lord i dont even want to know)... a damn condom... still in the package thank god. heres the real shit kicker of it. i park my quad and cover it in branches as to hide it fromview, and i turn up about 15 punds of trash just doing that. final tally: one Sonic 8.1 (which i left, for 2 reasons, one i dont want to take someone else hard earned boat, and 2, im getting old and fat and it sucked already carrying all the other crap i found), 3 paddles, and a dry bag, which already had its horrible contents listed.

once i climbed back up- i took out my 5 trash bags (25 gallin size) and started picking up garbage. empty beer cans, empty cigarette packs, plastic bags, you name. after about 90 to 120 minutes of rummaging i filled all five loaded my quad, and rode back to my truck where i loaded up and made my way home to deposit all of the crap i found in the appropriate can.

again, i am now 50/50 on this subject, where i can see that is one hell of a hike, but im also all about keeping what we still have now a days clean.

on a side note, that is the first time i hiked up and down there ever, and i must say it is damn near gorgeous. as many times as i have passed there i never really knew how pretty it was until i had a chance to sit down and munch on a sandwhich and really take a look.

p.s.
the boat ACTUALLY had a note inside a sleeve protector saying the owner will be back to pick it up by the 25th. so i guess it was ok not to steal someones stuff.

[Anonymous]

WHAT??? Was that supposed to be funny? (Don't quit your day job!) Do you have any clue what it is your are talking about? I'm completely lost here. How about being a little more specific in your last post. Heck, you didn't even say anything to piss anyone off. You at least need to talk shit or say something about someones mom. I mean so what, you found some stuff, took out some garbage, had a sandwich, and you supposedly left some shitty boat behind. I'm at a loss....

[Anonymous]

my original post was;

***
just for this ill make a trip this weekend to the south merced and hike around with a stuff sack that includes a tent and small abg, a little food, and some water. ill personally take a look around for gear that people carelessly leave. who knows i might be able to get a whole new set up for the price of less then half a tank of gas.
i know its a hell of a hike into some of those places, trust me ive done it before, but i was considerate enough to take out EVERYTHING i brought in. this time ill also bring about 5 to 6 trash bags. good thing i have a good running 4 wheeler, ill take that back their to take out the garbage people like laying around. i guess my weekends packed...
***

my second post was simply what i did. there ya go, or do i need to spell it out in big block letters in real small words for you?

[Anonymous]

That's Awesome!!! You actually went in and picked up after a much of careless idiots? Good one on you! I'm sure it'll payoff down the road. Way to make an effort!

[Anonymous]

was actually the only one there, i saw a few others hiking around. when i was putting my atv in the back of my truck a man and woman with their three VERY small children came up to me and sai hello. they were there doing the exact same thing.

[new Randolph]

Hey man,

Can I borrow your Quad for UCC? I heard that hike is like totally brutal, but me and my video crew from Colorado are going to go huck our shit there cause we heard that's the only cool thing in California. Quads are good for "keeping what we still have now a days clean."

[Anonymous]

Hey Bro' I'm not here to talk shit. I just wanna say good on your for picking up some trash. I sincerely hope the litter you found was not from boaters. Thanks for doing a little to pick shit up.